Forked Tongue

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    • #3769
      Paul W

      “He is smooth talking, seduces people into believing he is merely asking questions for his research. Then manipulates them into statements they never intended to make. He sugarcoats his view of them making them feel really admired so that he can co opt them to go after me.

      Sadly, other blogging “so called evangelicals” have come alongside him with motives that only the heavens will reveal. I have my suspicions.

      They supposedly want to make wrongs right and blatantly do it in the wrongest possible way. I thought I came from a shame inflicting culture. Modern day America is making the culture of my youth look like amateurs at that skill.. These are the real bullies of our time

      These bloggers who sit in front of their computer as predators would have had a hay day taking down Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and David and Peter and maybe the Lord himself. The Grand inquisitors are most often in religious robes. Inquisitors always take selective statements to pollute the whole reality and do harm with redacted and edited texts. Their number is legion. They are the Sanballats and Tobiah’s of the day. They wish to destroy the efforts of those who build, and mock them. I’ve had enough of them. I have waited long enough to respond. We will fight them on every lie.”

      – Ravi Zacharias
      From the Blog Post “Enough is Enough”
      Speaking on Steve Baughman – A man who exposed the darkness


      People have all kinds of concepts that they know God, God talks to them. They have fellowship with God. But John says, here’s how you know if they walk in darkness if we practice darkness, we hate and lie and steal, and, and murder and slander and gossip and all of that. And we go on this social media to destroy other people. We are totally lying and not living out the truth because God is light. You cannot have fellowship with God. And can you imagine Jesus blogging or destroying someone? Can you imagine him stealing or lying? Can you imagine it? How can I walk with Him if I’m doing that?

      – Jim Cymbala
      From the Devotional “Walking in the Light”


      Because the nastiness look if it’s people who aren’t Christians, they get on social media. What are you going to expect? You’re going to expect dog eat dog and and and fussing and fighting and anger and and, and whatever just nastiness that that’s to be expected. Jesus said in this world, you’ll have trouble. Satan is the god of this world. So Satan is controlling the people in this world. We’re going to have a satanic outcomes. But listen, someone, three people in the last 10 days said to me, you know, Pastor, what gets me is not that those people are nasty on on social media. It’s supposed to Christian people who have been going to church for years or even decades. They’re the worst. attacking, attacking, attacking, mocking, criticizing, accusing. And they’re believers. Who supposedly if they know their Bible, say God is love.

      – Jim Cymbala
      From the Sermon “A Different and Better New Year”



    • #3770

      I previously posted in another topic, but this is a more poignant thread. Thank you @paul-w for your insight into familiar language used by these men. We are all learning.

      Here we have yet another social media-centric devotional from Jim Cymbala. The @paul-w post above is a perfect example of how preachers will attempt to call out any feedback or questions some sort of “attack from evil forces.” Here, he is categorizing people who post on social media as “nasty, nasty.” Here is a quote from the devotional “A Warning Against Deception.”

      “But to think, because you know the truth, you’re fine when we don’t practice the truth. When you can quote verses but be nasty, nasty. Read what Christians write in social media. I’m told… I don’t check it out. I have enough problems in life. Or how they talk to each other. The meanness, the nastiness. Can anybody picture Jesus doing any of those things? And we’re supposed to be followers of Jesus, but that’s the point. They’re not in the light.”

      Now, I think being nasty is wrong. But is questioning a leader nasty? Would Jesus ever be quoted as saying something nasty? How about to religious leaders who are one thing on the stage and quite another off? Let’s take a look at the words of sinless Jesus.

      (Note: @formerbtmem54 had some great insight in their post which included scriptures from the Message translation. I’ll post in the Message here as well since it’s translated into our modern vernacular, but I encourage you to read it in other translations if you so desire.)

      Matthew 23:1-3:

      Now Jesus turned to address his disciples, along with the crowd that had gathered with them. “The religion scholars and Pharisees are competent teachers in God’s Law. You won’t go wrong in following their teachings on Moses. But be careful about following them. They talk a good line, but they don’t live it. They don’t take it into their hearts and live it out in their behavior. It’s all spit-and-polish veneer.

      Matthew 23:15:

      “You’re hopeless, you religion scholars and Pharisees! Frauds! You go halfway around the world to make a convert, but once you get him you make him into a replica of yourselves, double-damned.”

      Matthew 23:25:

      “You’re hopeless, you religion scholars and Pharisees! Frauds! You buff the surface of your cups and bowls so they sparkle in the sun, while the insides are maggoty with your greed and gluttony. Stupid Pharisee! Scour the insides, and then the gleaming surface will mean something.

      Matthew 23:27-28:

      “You’re hopeless, you religion scholars and Pharisees! Frauds! You’re like manicured grave plots, grass clipped and the flowers bright, but six feet down it’s all rotting bones and worm-eaten flesh. People look at you and think you’re saints, but beneath the skin you’re total frauds.

      Luke 12:1-3:

      By this time the crowd, unwieldy and stepping on each other’s toes, numbered into the thousands. But Jesus’ primary concern was his disciples. He said to them, “Watch yourselves carefully so you don’t get contaminated with Pharisee yeast, Pharisee phoniness. You can’t keep your true self hidden forever; before long you’ll be exposed. You can’t hide behind a religious mask forever; sooner or later the mask will slip and your true face will be known. You can’t whisper one thing in private and preach the opposite in public; the day’s coming when those whispers will be repeated all over town.

      Luke 12:4-5:

      “I’m speaking to you as dear friends. Don’t be bluffed into silence or insincerity by the threats of religious bullies. True, they can kill you, but then what can they do? There’s nothing they can do to your soul, your core being. Save your fear for God, who holds your entire life—body and soul—in his hands.

      The Word of the Lord…

    • #3788

      “This is not a negative message, but this is something that everyone has to be aware of… These people are sold out to sin. But what makes them dangerous is they are wolves in sheep’s clothing. And they’re coming in the guise of a minister or a preacher.”

      Jim Cymbala

      Unfortunately, this could become his epitaph.

    • #3789

      “And the message in the letter was this:  Shut it down. Shut it all down. Shut everything down.

      Get back to the Word. Get back to prayer. Get back to waiting on God. Get back to your wife. Get back to seeking the Lord. And don’t say I can’t afford to shut it down. Because if you don’t shut it down, God will shut it down. …

      He sent the letter. The response wasn’t very good. It was basically:

      “You don’t understand the anointing that I have on me. And you don’t understand what God has raised me up to accomplish in the earth. Shut it down? I’m taking in almost a million dollars a day. How could I shut it down?

      If I’m in the trouble you think I’m in, why is the money coming in? So I’m not shutting anything down. And I want you to know, your word from the Lord is way out in left field.”

      But it wasn’t very long before the televangelist wished he had shut it down. Because when you stop listening, bad things begin to happen. And now his name is an adjective. Imagine, he’s sleeping somewhere tonight. And his name is an adjective in New York City. It is. If you want to talk about somebody fraudulent and immoral and not real, his name is now an adjective in the English language, and he could have been spared it if he just would have listened.

      Isn’t God persistent? I was a lot younger then – a young minister – just learning a lot of things. But I thought to myself, “God, you’re amazing. You’re following this guy and making people call each other and write letters and prophecies.” But what can God do when nobody’s listening?

      In other words, God is speaking, but nobody was listening on the other end.”

      Jim Cymbala
      From the Sermon “The Dangers of Pride In Ministry”

    • #4198
      Paul W

      They named Brian Pettrey “Chief of Staff”!!  🤣  Like Jim is the president of the United States!!

      So..HR, it looks like you got a new boy in town. You’re out!

      What happened to Lincoln?

      Wait..isn’t the HR director Lincoln’s wife?

      Chief of Staff… 🤣

      • #4199

        There is something I have noticed. That when a crooked leader seems to sense that his or her time is up,they start doing a “storing’- for themselves.They are all over everything. Because usually they ends up disappearing. Going into exile somewhere.(Maybe some paranoia also) Or they shares up things in the family.I dont know if this is the case,but you never know.

        Sometime back Pettrey Jr was singing with the singers, and he is already in charge of “Sanctus”. Claire was shown last week as ” social media specialist”.

        Maybe the associate pastors and deacons should remember the poem “First they came…”

        Dont think what is done to the congregation cant be done to you. In fact the Bible warns all about this- do not join with anyone to do evil.

        The snake that bites from the front can hurt with the tail as well.

      • #4237

        They named Brian Pettrey “Chief of Staff”!! 🤣

        Like Jim is the president of the United States!! So..HR, it looks like you got a new boy in town. You’re out! What happened to Lincoln? Wait..isn’t the HR director Lincoln’s wife?@P Chief of Staff… 🤣

        @Paul W…being “Chief of “Staff” helps you and your family to have the income to rent a $7,000 per month home and have another home you own in Florida for when the next event happens Ala pandemic to spend 18 months there while everyone from your congregation and the city you serve suffers.  Not to mention it is a nice place to go vacation.

    • #4200

      Sometime back Pettrey Jr was singing with the singers, and he is already in charge of “Sanctus”. Claire was shown last week as ” social media specialist”.

      James sings with the singers. It is hard to keep track when the family is everywhere. Maybe Luke sings too. James is this guy, if you can believe it. Another discussion happening over there. Horrifying.

      Pettrey Jr. That is Luke. He is clearly being groomed to be the successor. The people would never go for Brian and Sue. JC knows that. The previous leaders of MVMNT were used as a placeholder for Luke to complete his time in California. Poor things -good people -they really didn’t have a clue. Soon little Luke will preach on Sunday and they will make him a pastor. Oh and he will have a large salary and parsonage.

      The circular firing squad is already happening among the pastors. They will eat their own to save themselves from being targeted.

      • #4222

        The “poor things” go for us all. That is what is so disturbing about all this- we didnt have a clue!

        We truly love the Lord and came to serve,not knowing our service means a different thing in the land of the Cymbalas’.

        I believe its true about the circular stuff.

        Well,God dont like ugly?

        Just let us be sure to not let bitterness take over us. That would be a victory for the enemy.

        Jesus Christ- the true JC- is still Lord.

    • #4223

      This woman says it best.

      Also very good:

      When Pleasant Words Hide Harmful Intentions

      How to identify flattery in an abusive environment.

      • #4234

        The resulting thing about all this is now I look at BTab so less innocently.

        I’m trying not to be jaded but it makes you ask,how much of anything you heard was ever really the truth? Not the people’s testimonies,but Jim Cymbala’s? Anything that comes out of his mouth?

        But instead of being jaded or angry,I realise we can give thanks to God for opening our eyes,even if the experience was painful. Now we can tell and  pray to open other peoples.

        All BTab is doing is recycling old testimonies.

        All of them giving old repeat sermons.Is any effort being put into Bible study?Dead messages.

        The “altar calls” are not gospel centred altar calls.

        What happened to the Holy Spirit? “Fresh wind,fresh fire”?


        Those are the signs of a dead church.The church is dead ,people being fooled by an image!

        Why silence is not an option. Its not slander. How can truth be slander? We are not being wicked. Especially if you have already tried the other means,going to the party to let them know you ” were injured”, and got no response.

        “Truth sets you free”.

        Let our cries  be a wakeup,BTab, before the Lord has to come and do a work Himself. Or indeed,all that was said about that person now being “an adjective” will become your lot. Empires can and do fall.The thing you are afraid of becomes a reality.God is patient and longsuffering,but not forever.

    • #4235


      The truth is we trusted Jim Cymbala because he has a ‘trusted role,’ not because he is a trustworthy individual. In fact, what we see outlined in this site is that he is not only untrustworthy, but is dangerous and predatory, feeding on people in the congregation in the worst ways.

      I agree. We should give thanks for our eyes having been opened. We are to be as wise as serpents and harmless as doves. Ignorance is not bliss. We will never be the same knowing what we know, but the truth is the truth.

      Many have a hard time processing what harm Jim and his family and other leaders have done, because they NEED their narrative to be true. They may self-destruct if it’s not true because they have elevated BT and Jim Cymbala to places they ought not to been.

      The public revelation of how morally corrupt top leadership is will hurt some more than others. Some never discerned the wolves. Others have (rightly) warned of the wolves. Wolves In shepherd’s clothing. Always eating, never full.

      Question. In the interest of “handling things biblically,” how does the Bible tell us to handle wolves? Wolves in leadership? What are God’s thoughts on these people?

      • #4236

        I agree with many of the things you have said.

        To answer the question posed at the end,well, I think that is why we are all here:) To get a relatable shoulder- those who know the pain- and feedback?

        Some will say “say nothing,let God handle it”.But I am not sure that is right for these reasons.

        Yes,He will handle it,and we should let Him handle it.But,isnt the whole thing abt being Christians in this world is that we are His hands and feet and His vocal voice in this world? So there is a need for some vocalism,speak up for righteousness?

        Think also,should the bottom falls out,how does that make us,Christians look, having known and seemingly turned a blind eye? The very thing we say we want to avoid- a scandal- happens. Only now the fingerpointing is worse.The public revelation hurts the name of Christianity and Jesus- giving ammunition to an enemy who waits for such. Its not just ” a bad apple” but ” all are bad apples”.Christianity and the name of Jesus is mocked,saying we are all the same.

        Now that brings me to the scripture you mentioned:” Be wise as serpents and harmless as doves”.

        How can people and others be wise if they do not know? How,per se,can you avoid danger if you dont know where it is?

        So I believe it is okay to speak out. BUT,in a proper order.

        1st- dont rush to tell. Talk to God.Wait,get on your knees,and tell God what happened.

        2: Tell someone. And this is for various reasons. Your mental well being.Its hard to keep things bottled up. Exposure- someone else can help you pray for that person.Accountability- someone else can help you pray for yourself.

        And this ties into #1. The Lord will guide you who to talk to. You want to talk to the right people.For having that knowledge,how do they then handle it?

        Which leads to #3. Being harmless. We dont want to become or going down to a level thats later regretted.

        And after we have done tell one or two-certain folks-try not to dwell on it too much? To let it regurgitate to create an ulcer( fester) within us.Destroy our hearts and peace of mind. We want our healing.

        To let God have the vengeance. (Well really His mercy be at work.Which is the part we really dont want- let that hammer come down)☹
        But,alas,He is not like us.His name is mercy.
        I didnt exactly bring scripture verses but this I believe is what the Bible and Jesus would want from us. That we may go on in peace and maintain our righteousness. We do our part,and leave the rest- wait patiently😫😬- on Him? ( you note the faces.Can I add,maintain a sense of humor? Some healthy joy.” The joy of the Lord is our strength”).

    • #4238

      Those are the signs of a dead church.The church is dead ,people being fooled by an image!

      That’s because:


      • #4255

        It is dead because the Lord says so.” For as the body without the spirit is dead…”

        The Holy Spirit is quenched in BTab.

        He is grieved.

    • #4246
      Paul W

      being “Chief of “Staff” helps you and your family to have the income to rent a $7,000 per month home and have another home you own in Florida


      O.M.G.  How much are these people making?

      • #4250

        I’d like to know how much they make in base salary and how much they receive as parsonage on top of their salary. I bet anything that you we would all be stunned, but not surprised.

        Saved by grace. Made rich by the tithe.


        It reminds me of Eli and his sons.


        Eli’s Wicked Sons
        1 Samuel 2

        Eli’s sons were scoundrels; they had no regard for the Lord. Now it was the practice of the priests that, whenever any of the people offered a sacrifice, the priest’s servant would come with a three-pronged fork in his hand while the meat was being boiled and would plunge the fork into the pan or kettle or caldron or pot. Whatever the fork brought up the priest would take for himself. This is how they treated all the Israelites who came to Shiloh. But even before the fat was burned, the priest’s servant would come and say to the person who was sacrificing, “Give the priest some meat to roast; he won’t accept boiled meat from you, but only raw.”

        If the person said to him, “Let the fat be burned first, and then take whatever you want,” the servant would answer, “No, hand it over now; if you don’t, I’ll take it by force.”

        This sin of the young men was very great in the Lord’s sight, for they were treating the Lord’s offering with contempt.

        But Samuel was ministering before the Lord—a boy wearing a linen ephod. Each year his mother made him a little robe and took it to him when she went up with her husband to offer the annual sacrifice. Eli would bless Elkanah and his wife, saying, “May the Lord give you children by this woman to take the place of the one she prayed for and gave to the Lord.” Then they would go home. And the Lord was gracious to Hannah; she gave birth to three sons and two daughters. Meanwhile, the boy Samuel grew up in the presence of the Lord.

        Now Eli, who was very old, heard about everything his sons were doing to all Israel and how they slept with the women who served at the entrance to the tent of meeting. So he said to them, “Why do you do such things? I hear from all the people about these wicked deeds of yours. No, my sons; the report I hear spreading among the Lord’s people is not good. If one person sins against another, God may mediate for the offender; but if anyone sins against the Lord, who will intercede for them?” His sons, however, did not listen to their father’s rebuke, for it was the Lord’s will to put them to death.

        And the boy Samuel continued to grow in stature and in favor with the Lord and with people.

        Prophecy Against the House of Eli

        Now a man of God came to Eli and said to him, “This is what the Lord says: ‘Did I not clearly reveal myself to your ancestor’s family when they were in Egypt under Pharaoh? I chose your ancestor out of all the tribes of Israel to be my priest, to go up to my altar, to burn incense, and to wear an ephod in my presence. I also gave your ancestor’s family all the food offerings presented by the Israelites. Why do you scorn my sacrifice and offering that I prescribed for my dwelling? Why do you honor your sons more than me by fattening yourselves on the choice parts of every offering made by my people Israel?’

        “Therefore the Lord, the God of Israel, declares: ‘I promised that members of your family would minister before me forever.’ But now the Lord declares: ‘Far be it from me! Those who honor me I will honor, but those who despise me will be disdained. The time is coming when I will cut short your strength and the strength of your priestly house, so that no one in it will reach old age, and you will see distress in my dwelling. Although good will be done to Israel, no one in your family line will ever reach old age. Every one of you that I do not cut off from serving at my altar I will spare only to destroy your sight and sap your strength, and all your descendants will die in the prime of life.

        “‘And what happens to your two sons, Hophni and Phinehas, will be a sign to you—they will both die on the same day. I will raise up for myself a faithful priest, who will do according to what is in my heart and mind. I will firmly establish his priestly house, and they will minister before my anointed one always. Then everyone left in your family line will come and bow down before him for a piece of silver and a loaf of bread and plead, “Appoint me to some priestly office so I can have food to eat.”’”

        Death of Eli
        1 Samuel 4

        That same day a Benjamite ran from the battle line and went to Shiloh with his clothes torn and dust on his head. When he arrived, there was Eli sitting on his chair by the side of the road, watching, because his heart feared for the ark of God. When the man entered the town and told what had happened, the whole town sent up a cry.

        Eli heard the outcry and asked, “What is the meaning of this uproar?”

        The man hurried over to Eli, who was ninety-eight years old and whose eyes had failed so that he could not see. He told Eli, “I have just come from the battle line; I fled from it this very day.”

        Eli asked, “What happened, my son?”

        The man who brought the news replied, “Israel fled before the Philistines, and the army has suffered heavy losses. Also your two sons, Hophni and Phinehas, are dead, and the ark of God has been captured.”

        When he mentioned the ark of God, Eli fell backward off his chair by the side of the gate. His neck was broken and he died, for he was an old man, and he was heavy. He had led Israel forty years.

        His daughter-in-law, the wife of Phinehas, was pregnant and near the time of delivery. When she heard the news that the ark of God had been captured and that her father-in-law and her husband were dead, she went into labor and gave birth, but was overcome by her labor pains. As she was dying, the women attending her said, “Don’t despair; you have given birth to a son.” But she did not respond or pay any attention.

        She named the boy Ichabod, saying, “The Glory has departed from Israel”


        In the account, Eli warned and rebuked his sons. Even though it was the wickedness of the leader’s sons, the Lord’s judgement came to this leader of Israel, his home, and his rulership. Imagine if Eli was as wicked as his sons!

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