There were accusations made before.

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    • #2939
      ministryworker
      Participant

      I say this with a heavy heart.

      I am concerned about things I have seen at BT. Especially in light of what has come out about Ravi Zacharias and that leaders in the organization knew of his hidden life going back to 2008 and possibly before.

      A few years ago there were allegations of sexual abuse made about Jim Cymbala. This was from a person who is now a grown man, but at the time was a child. This would have been back in the 70s. This person sent faxes to just about every fax number he could find that went to the offices. I was able to read one of those faxes. Subsequently, they removed our fax numbers except for a single fax line so that this information wouldn’t spread any further.

      Staff was told that that he was crazy. From what I have been told there was an internal investigation that was done and that Jim was questioned. And that they dropped their internal investigation and instead continued saying that he was crazy and they literally laughed at him.

      In another resemblance to Ravi Zacharias, Jim Cymbala would take extended trips alone to Argentina many times. That is concerning.

      I have read others speaking about similar issues on a previous blog. I don’t know for sure if all of those allegations are true, but Ravi Zacharias has shown that where there is smoke, there may be fire.

    • #2940
      JBranch
      Participant

      @ministryworker I heard much of the same account. Because of the allegations they had child protective services come to BT Kids  to look at the building. But back the 70s they were in a different building.

      Me and many I know were considering leaving BT becuase of what you mentioned and the questions surrounding his daughter-in-law’s death.

    • #2941
      Former Member
      Participant

      This is devastating. What you’re saying is that the leadership never completed the internal investigation, and certainly didn’t allow for any kind of independent investigation, right? How did the pastoral staff and Board of Directors endorse this blatant breach of ethics? And now the church is constructing a new space for the Childrens Ministry, located in a basement below ground?

      What does Ministry Safe have to say about their Partner, who could not even facilitate or complete a legitimate, independent investigation into credible allegations of sexual abuse? Did their prevention tools not cover this type of situation?

      Everyone at BT who has seen something or has evidence of any kind needs to start talking. If the allegations are true, who is protecting future targets of this horrendous abuse? What if there are other abusers who have also gotten a free pass? How deep does this go?

    • #2946
      FedUpwithitall
      Participant

      How deep? This only scratches the surface of abuse, lies and deception.  This place is pure fraud.  All of the Pastors and all of the board members are complicit.

    • #2947
      Tammy
      Participant

      Is this what PJC was referring to during his August 2019 sermon, when he said, “some people have had abuse of different kinds, and that memory is something they need to forget. Not that it never happened, but there’s no good gonna come if you keep dwelling on that.” Full message: https://vimeo.com/354005729#t=38m48s

    • #2948
      FedUpwithitall
      Participant

      He is a bully pulpit preacher. He uses it as a weapon to attack anyone who tries to come against him. He is about to be really exposed for the fraud and liar he is.

    • #2949
      hwpatrick356
      Participant

      <p class=”p1″ style=”margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 17px; line-height: normal; caret-color: #000000; color: #000000; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;”><span class=”s1″>Leadership did complete and investigation, and there were outside police authorities that also investigated this man’s claims and they found zero conclusive evidence. This specific claim is a rabbit trail…</span></p>

    • #2950
      hwpatrick356
      Participant

      Leadership did complete and investigation, and there were outside police authorities that also investigated this man’s claims and they found zero conclusive evidence. This specific claim is a rabbit trail…

      • #2955
        Questions
        Participant

        Please define “outside police authorities”. Law enforcement does not investigate allegations when the criminal statute of limitations has already run out. And everyone knows leadership holds no real accountability with Jim. How are they qualified to complete an investigation anyway? They are not trained to investigate matters of abuse. What you are saying does not add up.

      • #3088
        Paul Br
        Participant

        They did not complete an investigation because i refused to be interviewed outside of a courtroom . After the attorney quit representing BT, they made ZERO contact with my lawyer . Charges HAVE NOT BEEN DROPPED, the legal case has been delayed by Covid and lock down. I talk to my attorney quite regularly about the case.

        I can provide all documents from Bts attorney as well as thier “investigator “ – who ABSOLUTELY DID NOT COMPLETE AND INVESTIGATION . As we all refused to be interviewed by aparty hired by the church and told them we will only make a statement in court .

        Paul Brewer

    • #2951
      FedUpwithitall
      Participant

      @Patrick

      That’s hysterical! “Leadership Investigated”. They have no position of authority over Jim Cymbala! Lol

       

      What a joke!

    • #2952
      hwpatrick356
      Participant

      @ Fedupwithitall

      True, which I then followed up with police authorities outside of the church investigated. This was the main investigation and nothing was found.

    • #2953
      FedUpwithitall
      Participant

      Patrick,

      So I am assuming from your response that you work at TBT?

    • #2954
      hwpatrick356
      Participant

      @Fedupwithitall

      That would be an incorrect assumption.

      • #2956
        FedUpwithitall
        Participant

        Wow! Thank you for this clarification. I was suspicious of “Patrick” and believe him to be someone inside just trying to cover up for this corrupt organization.  SMH

    • #2957
      ministryworker
      Participant

      To be clear @hwpatrick356, this is still an issue for me and many others. Bringing to light serious allegations like his is not slander, but it is a huge concern. Here is why. Many have left Brooklyn Tabernacle after hearing how they handled this investigation. Again, if RZIM and C&MA’s handling of abuse claims and followup investigations is any indication, the investigation (even by so-called authorities) was half-done, imo. After all, it was told to the staff and ministry workers that he was crazy even prior to the investigation. That doesn’t sound like an acountibility structure that takes allegations seriously. From what I understand, leadership laughed at him.

      And that is the issue, right? They called him crazy and laughed at him. Well done accountibility structure. (claps)

      But he knew the color of the carpet in the house and the color inside his car. He remembered.

    • #2958
      ministryworker
      Participant

      For those who may not know, here is a profile on how Ravi Zacharias’ ministry used accoutibility structures and handled their coverup:

      https://julieroys.com/ravi-zacharias-allegations-highlight-secrecy-cover-up-at-rzim/


      @Questions
      . Those are really good questions. I’m assumming the “authorities” were Child Protective Services. Who did they hire for their internal investigation? I was also waiting for the Brooklyn Tabernacle to issue a public statement to the church about the allegations, but I never saw one.

      They did, however issue a statement about Ravi Zacharias:

      https://www.brooklyntabernacle.org/ravi-zacharias-statement/

      Pastoral Staff Statement: Ravi Zacharias

      The Christian world has been both shocked and saddened recently by revelations concerning Ravi Zacharias, the noted author and apologist, who spoke at The Brooklyn Tabernacle on a number of occasions. It has become clear that he was living a life that denied the Christian faith that he professed.

      Our prayers go up for the victims who were abused and manipulated, and who are going through deep emotional trauma; for the families of the victims; and for Ravi Zacharias’s family.

      This tragic story is a reminder of two verses from the New Testament:

      • “Therefore let anyone who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall.” – 1 Corinthians 10:12
      • “But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called ‘Today,’ so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness.” – Hebrews 3:13

      May God keep us all daily close to Jesus.

    • #2961
      hwpatrick356
      Participant

      Let me start off by saying I am not trying to bash anyone on here or act as an advocate for the church in any way. There are things on this forum that I agree with and some that I disagree with. I’m not at liberty to say all the facts. But for this specific post, I know without a shadow of a doubt that this was fully investigated by agencies that are not child protective services but much more serious. And there was no evidence of a connection between PJC and the man in question nor was there any evidence of abuse and the claims were dropped. I cannot vouch for the laughter you mention. But I can say with certainty it was investigated fully by outside policing agencies.

      • #2967
        Questions
        Participant

        @Patrick

        What year did this investigation by “outside policing agencies” take place?

      • #3094
        Paul Br
        Participant

        I can say without a shadow of a doubt a full investigation was never completed by the church , as thier attorney left the case one month into the investigation. There was no formal or informal conclusion to the investigation because the BT did not complete one . Details below . And yes , there are many hospital , psych record from the 1970’sthat back up my not only my claims as a victim of sexual abuse at the hands of Jim Cymbala and BT, but other victims as well.

      • #3100
        Questions
        Participant

        @Paul Br

        Were there ever “outside policing agencies” involved in investigating your claims of abuse? This is separate from the internal investigation the church never completed. @hwpatrick356 claims that the police, or other “policing agencies” related to law enforcement, were involved. Is this true? Did anyone from Law Enforcement ever contact you? Did they conduct any kind of formal interview with you? Was there a case number provided? Can we look at the case file to see how it was investigated and concluded? @hwpatrick356 has not backed up any of his “outside policing agencies” claims, other to insist they were formally involved and that we are supposed to be satisfied with his answer.

    • #2962
      JBranch
      Participant

      @hwpatrick356

      You seem to know a good deal about this investigation, which is promising. In the spirit of truth and documented facts (which we are all interested in) what “outside policing agencies” can I call to verify the investigation? As I mentioned, cps did a walkthrough as part of their investigation which was such an obvious exercise in investigative futility. It wasn’t even the same building!

      I am also extrememly disappointed regarding how leadership handled such a serious allegation and how they characterized this man to us.

    • #2964
      FedUpwithitall
      Participant

      Patrick to me is an insider. If this was not made public how would he know this specific information.  @Patrick.  If you have specific information that their was s sufficient investigation please provide the organization that did the “thorough” investigation.

    • #2965
      JBranch
      Participant

      @Fedupwithitall I have doubts as to whether his name is Patrick or not (which is okay), but if he said he doesn’t work for TBT then I have no reason to doubt that.

      @hwpatrick356

      That would be an incorrect assumption.

      I would venture to guess that if it was his own son or daughter that was sexually abused by a Pastor at the Brooklyn Tabernacle that he would want to know the truth. Since he knows so much about the investigation, then he will help with information that will put this to rest.

      q1 @hwpatrick356: What “outside policing agencies” outside of child protective services (and outside of any law firm) performed the investigation?

      q2 @hwpatrick356: As you mentioned in your comment, what things on this forum do you agree with?

      @hwpatrick356

      There are things on this forum that I agree with and some that I disagree with.

       

    • #2966
      ministryworker
      Participant

      Saw this…..

      Under Prior Exposure. Paul W mentioned abuse cover ups going back years.

    • #2971
      ministryworker
      Participant

      @hwpatrick356

      Any response to the questions from @JBranch and @Questions ?

      What “outside policing agencies” outside of child protective services (and outside of any law firm) performed the investigation?

      What year did this investigation by “outside policing agencies” take place?

      I know that you are certain. I would love to put this rabbit trail to bed.

      But I can say with certainty it was investigated fully by outside policing agencies.

      …I know without a shadow of a doubt that this was fully investigated by agencies that are not child protective services but much more serious.

    • #3043
      ministryworker
      Participant

      Ladies and Gentlemen

      I want to point out that @hwpatrick356 (who knows “beyond a shadow of a doubt” about the situation and was quick to respond on this topic, but apparently doesn’t work for the Brooklyn Tabernacle) has NO ANSWER for what “outside policing authorities” have investigated allegations of sexual abuse against Jim Cymbala.

      Furthermore, since he is now choosing silence, WHY would @hwpatrick356 misrepresent that there were outside policing authorities that did an investigation and claim that our questions are a “rabbit trail?”

      (insert: “There is nothing to see here. Please keep moving.”)

      The answer I would assume is that they would like these questions to go away A. S. A. P. Especially in light of how RZIM handled their investigations INTERNALLY (and poorly) and given what was mentioned on the old blog about keeping sexual abuse on the “hush hush. It’s a p.r. nightmare. It’s standard operating procedure.”

      Those aren’t my words. Those are from 2009, and well before these recent allegations.

      If that doesn’t trouble you, I don’t know what will.

    • #3044
      hwpatrick356
      Participant

      I do have an answer for who the policing authorities were but I’m choosing not to give it. Just like you’re not providing the faxes that were sent by the accuser or who this accuser was and how exactly he knew PJC. You’re also not providing how you know that people laughed at him or who told you that there was an internal investigation similar to what I stated myself. Since neither of us are willing to provide all the full details of what we say we know then all it can amount to is heresay.

      I’m not misrepresenting that there were police authorities, I’m willing to bet my information is more factual then a fax being sent but again you don’t know who I am and I don’t know who you are so it’s all just heresay.

      “ The answer I would assume is that they would like these questions to go away A. S. A. P.”

      Again I don’t work for them, which I mentioned earlier and once again I’m not totally against everything being mentioned on this site, I just chose to respond to this post because I actually did have info on it. You sure do assume a lot.

      • #3107
        Paul Br
        Participant

        I have provided documents below that states the exact opposite . I have text messages ,reports, records of appointments( and the lack there of )  , the email from the attorney when she stopped representing BT  and a host of other documents

        . We are waiting to hear your “informed thoughts “ since you are convinced you had insider knowledge on MY LEGAL CASE ! THE UTTER ARROGANCE.

        Wether or not you are a member of the church – you sure drink up Jim Jones Cymbala’s kool-AID real quick.

      • #3180
        Paul Br
        Participant

        We are still waiting on your reply and wondering why you chose to spread lies and defend the church that has continually abused and hurt people . Clearly your “facts” are fake and another act of deception on the part of the church

    • #3045
      FedUpwithitall
      Participant

      @Patrick

       

      Your comment

      “I just chose to respond to this post because I actually did have info on it.”

       

      You have provided nothing at all.  As you said hearsay which everything on this site is not. Its factual. When you give some facts then you can join in the conversation to expose this corrupt organization.  Otherwise don’t waste the time.

       

    • #3081
      ministryworker
      Participant

      @hwpatrick356

      Your entire attempt to shore up that there was a proper investigation hinges on the fact that it was “outside policing authorities” that investigated and that there wasn’t just an internal investigation. Since you prefer the use of the word “hearsay,” let’s remove my unsubstantiated claim that faxes were sent and that people like myself have read them. Let’s also remove my concern about leadership laughing at this man. I haven’t used this person’s name out of respect, but since you require me to make his name public, we can call him Mr. B.

      What is left is your confirmation that there was indeed an accusation of sexual abuse at the hand of Jim Cymbala. What you have also confirmed was that there was an investigation. What you have claimed, without proof (you like to call it heresay) “without a shadow of a doubt” was that there were “outside policing authorities” that handled that investigation.


      @JBranch
      had the best clarifying questions, so I will repost his/hers:

      What “outside policing agencies” outside of child protective services (and outside of any law firm) performed the investigation?

      As you mentioned in your comment, what things on this forum do you agree with?

    • #3084
      JBranch
      Participant

      Thank you @ministryworker. I know these are hard questions but they MUST be asked.

      I have another question for @hwpatrick356.

      Leadership did complete [an] investigation, and there were outside police authorities that also investigated this man’s claims…”

      Really? So leadership did their own investigation of accusations of sexual abuse by the Senior Pastor? I would assume “Leadership” would be the Board and not the subordinate pastors?

      I’m looking for some answers that would leave us all “without a shadow of a doubt.”

    • #3085
      FedUpwithitall
      Participant

      “Leadership” to my knowledge has never done an “internal” investigation into these claims. They never questioned the senior pastor about these claims and to my knowledge they even dismissed Mr. B as crazy and not worth their time to listen too.

    • #3086
      formerbtmem54
      Participant

      I can see it now. Board Members scouring for every fact.

    • #3087
      Paul Br
      Participant

      My name is Paul Brewer, a sex abuse survivor at the hands of Jim Cymbala and the founding members of the Brooklyn Tabernacle. Sharing my story is one way to help others that have been abused, and my story is one of hope and determination. I am not a sex abuse survivor that thought the abuse was normal that was occurring . There is
      clearly nothing normal about ritual sex abuse, drugging children with barbituates  and prostituting us  to
      the church and members of the community.

      The Brooklyn Tabernacle, the Pentecostal church founded by Jim Cymbala, have committed the ultimate act of betrayal against children and their family members. During churchservices, they would routinely round up the children, take us off church property, and ritually rape us. My mother and other concerned parents had to wait a long time after the church services ended, just to get their children back.

      now here are the facts so you all know what you are talking about –

      We were not just church members of the early BT but my father was also an assistant pastor in the 10970s when we attended

      As far as investigation . The BT hired attorney , Tracy L Boak at Perlman and Perlman. So you know , I read her a new one , and she also believed I was molested and resigned from representing BT and Jim Cymbala. Her note to my attorney was “Your client Paul is a B*tch !” .  I have no time for people who enable sex abusers and resort to calling victims of sex abuse crazy, yes I am talking to you members of The Brooklyn Tabernacle

      Perlman and Perlman
      41 Madison Avenue, Suite 4000
      New York, NY 10010-2202
      P: (212) 889-0575 ext. 236 | F: (212) 743-8120
      http://www.perlmanandperlman.com

      The initial investigation was conducted by T&M and I stopped the interrogation after the despicable and unchristian way the church and Jim dealt with this crisis.

      T&M Protection Resources, LLC
      230 Park Avenue, Suite 440
      New York, NY 10169
      phone: 212.916.8852
      cell: 646.530.4373Laura Kirschstein, Esq.
      Vice President
      Sexual Misconduct Consulting & Investigations

      Yes , I did most certainly sent all those faxes, as well as hundreds of emails, phone calls and would even resort to smoke signals if i need to. I have all the faxes , emails and communications between me and lawyers etc,  if any one needs a copy, because you all seem to believe a rapist over the people he has victimized. If any one needs copies email me at sweetfeetmusic at the yahoo.

      Insulting victims Jim has abused is his MO. Many members know of Jims accusations of rape towards other female adult members of the church. ****Sentence removed by BTF Moderator****. look into Rina Gatdula and what she really did at the church .

       

      I hope my story will give a light to survivors . Although my healing is a journey and can be a struggle at times, my survival has given me a purpose to work on, a cause much greater than myself; a voice for sex abuse victims. Turning my own trauma into healing for others isfulfilling beyond description.

      The foundations of my childhood were founded in grief and horror. My metamorphosis from shame turned into ANGER and unstoppable motivation,  my weapons, grounded by the truth that I have survived the unimaginable. Childhood sex abuse can destroy you, or turn you into a powerful beast. I chose to become a beast

      I DECLINED TO SUBMIT.

      Paul Brewer

      Matthew 18:6
      But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me,
      it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck,
      and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

       

       

       

      • #3105
        BTF Moderator
        Moderator

        Sentence removed in the above comment due to naming an alleged victim, especially in a speculative manner. Paul, your story is welcome here, and you are encouraged to continue sharing your experience as you choose, but please do not name other alleged victims unless you have their consent to do so. Thank you.

      • #3106
        Paul Br
        Participant

        Thank you for catching that ! I have. Copied and paste text from a lot of documents to share my story and fill the gaps in with speech to text (note typos) . I try to comb the posts and remove any references to other victims and personal info .

    • #3089
      Paul Br
      Participant

      From: Tracy L. Boak <tracy@perlmanandperlman.com>
      Sent: Friday, June 8, 2018 5:22:22 PM
      To: Sweet Feet Music
      Cc: Ariel Burgess; M Rene’ Huff; Helena Chapp; jcymbala@brooklyntab.org
      Subject: Re: June 15th CONF TIME and more

      Hello, Mr. Brewer,

      As of this afternoon, this firm is no longer representing Brooklyn Tabernacle in this matter.  Further communications should be directed to Brooklyn Tabernacle.

      Sincerely,

      Tracy L. Boak

       

       

       

       

      Tracy L. Boak
      Attorney At Law
      tracy@perlmanandperlman.com

    • #3090
      Paul Br
      Participant

      Dear Mr. Brewer,

       

      I am aware that you have discussed with the investigator what the next steps are—and that your attorney was present during the discussion.  It is my understanding that she expressed that she is still very early in the process of her investigation.  I have no control over the time in which the investigation will take, but she has expressed that she is working diligently to complete it as quickly as possible.

       

      Until the investigation is complete, there is, quite simply, nothing for me to do.  Upon completion of the investigation, it is my intention to reach out to you and your attorney at that time.

       

      Sincerely,

       

      Tracy

       

       

       

       

       

      Tracy L. Boak
      Attorney At Law
      tracy@perlmanandperlman.com

      41 Madison Avenue, Suite 4000
      New York, NY 10010-2202
      P: (212) 889-0575 ext. 236 | F: (212) 743-8120
      http://www.perlmanandperlman.com

      Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.

      This e-mail message may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. Email messages to non-clients are normally confidential and may also be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient(s), or the employee or agent responsible for delivery of this message to the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete this e-mail message from your computer.
      From: Sweet Feet Music <promotion@sweetfeetmusic.com>
      Sent: Friday, May 4, 2018 12:30 PM
      To: Tracy L. Boak <tracy@perlmanandperlman.com>
      Cc: >; Ariel Burgess <aburgess@perlmanandperlman.com>
      Subject: UPDATE
      Tracy,

      I would like a prompt update on the next steps you are taking and hope we can accomplish this in a timely and thorough way.

      In reference to the Los Angeles church I was trafficked to , Huff and I have acquired additional council to address these specific issues. The new attorney has personal connections to Angelus Temple and Pentecostal church abuse , and is looking to help my case under Huff’s leadership.

      I left you a voicemail for an update , as you stated you do not want to speak to me as you do not want to be a witness if we go to court , I can assure the only court I am planning on attending is the court of public opinion.

      Please update me with due diligence and respect I paid your investigation team .
      Thank you,
      Paul Brewer

      FOR JIM

    • #3091
      Paul Br
      Participant

      I HAD ONE  INTERVIEW WITH THIER INVESTIGATOR – AND THAT IS AS MUCH INVESTIGATING AS THEY DID INTO THE ALLEGATIONS. I WOULD HARDLY DESCRIBE ONE INTERVIEW AS A COMPLETE AND THOROUGH INVESTIGATION.

      I told BT attorney Tracy L Boak, I would no longer participate in an investigation outside of a courtroom or the court of public opinion .  For months leading up to this point, the board cancelled meetings three times to discuss the matter with THIER OWN attorney , Tracy L Boak.  And inevitably kept stringing me along. I am not willing to be interviewed by any entity hired by the church. I would also not allow them to interview my family and other victims without a third party present. That is unethical and immoral .

      This is  how the BT and Brooklyn Tab dealt with the allegations .

      Ask yourself do you have a complete list who is really on the board at BT ?

      Why is that hidden from you ?

      If you read his book , you have read the story where a man came into the church with a gun over sexual abuse allegations  ?? Hello CLUE phone. It is for you ?? Can he make his crimes any more obvious . He twisted the pain and hurt he has caused countless generations into a story he can sell to you.

       

      Paul Brewer

      ———————————————————————————————————————————————————————————

      On May 6, 2018, at 11:16 AM, Laura Kirschstein <LKirschstein@tmprotection.com> wrote:
      Paul,

      Any time Monday after 5 pm EST works for me.  I will not be back in the office until then.

       

      Best,

      Laura

       

      From: Sweet Feet Music >
      Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 1:10 PM
      To: Laura Kirschstein <LKirschstein@tmprotection.com>
      Subject: Re:
      Laura,

      How does 9:30 Am west coast ( 12:30 your time ) on Monday ?
      Feel free to call me anytime after 9:30 that works for you .
      Paul Brewer

      Sent from my iPad

      On May 5, 2018, at 2:28 PM, Laura Kirschstein <LKirschstein@tmprotection.com> wrote:
      Paul,

      Anytime after 5 EST on Monday will work for me.

       

      Best,

      Laura

       

      From: Sweet Feet Music <>
      Sent: Friday, May 4, 2018 5:26 PM
      To: Laura Kirschstein <LKirschstein@tmprotection.com>
      Subject: Re:
      Laura,

      Are you free to chat on Monday ? I can share details then so please let me know what time works best for your schedule .

      At this point , I know my mother will be open to being interviewed , however , my sister is in very fragile state and had a breakdown earlier in the week.

      We may have to work on getting my sister in grounded state where she is able to participate .

      Ill gather all the info out need for you when we speak next.

      Thank you,
      Paul Brewer

      Sent from my iPad

      On May 4, 2018, at 1:43 PM, Laura Kirschstein <LKirschstein@tmprotection.com> wrote:
      Paul,
      Thank you for your email. As a result of our interview I would like to contact and interview ***************. Would you be able to provide me with their contact information? When we spoke you also told me ****** of the individual who you contacted *********** but had their name as well as the name of the *********  Would you be able to provide me with their names and contact information as well? If you would like to discuss any of this over the phone we can do so at your convenience.

      Many thanks,
      Laura
      Laura Kirschstein, Esq.
      Vice President
      Sexual Misconduct Consulting & Investigations

       

      T&M Protection Resources, LLC
      230 Park Avenue, Suite 440
      New York, NY 10169
      phone: 212.916.8852
      cell: 646.530.4373
      http://www.tmprotection.com
      The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. T&M Protection Resources, LLC.

      • #3099
        Tammy
        Participant

        @Paul Br

        The way the church handled the internal investigation and treated you during is immoral and unethical, like you said. How terrible. Whoever the leaders were in 2018 when this happened, board and pastoral staff, they all share responsibility since they are charged with protecting the sheep first, not the shepherd. A botched investigation does not protect the sheep at all. Even if the allegations are false (which I do not think they are), church leadership was supposed to facilitate a thorough, INDEPENDENT investigation, not an incomplete, internal one using lawyers paid for by the church, where not even basic trauma informed measures were taken. Church leadership needs to provide answers for this, and an admittance of complete failure.

    • #3092
      FedUpwithitall
      Participant

      @Paul B,

      Thank you for sharing your story! It must be told! There is so many out their that need to be heard as well. Other victims of abuse.

      • #3093
        Paul Br
        Participant

        Thank you for listening  I am a very proud hard working Sexual. Assault Councilor with a speciality in child sex abuse. I provide therapy and emotional support for children and teens during forensic interviews by a qualified team of investigators.  Sounds like something only a crazy person would do !!! HA HA HA

      • #3098
        Tammy
        Participant

        @Paul Br

        Echoing @FedUpwithitall, thank you for sharing your story. I send compassion your way for the horrors you have been through. Maybe others will see your words, strength, and bravery, and feel supported if they come forward too.

        I remember back in the late 1980’s a bunch of people left BT because they were hearing of credible accounts of child sexual abuse by PJC and other BT church leaders. It was bad enough that they left the church as a result. Does anyone have contact with any who left back then for those reasons?

        This was about 10-15 years after your alleged abuse occurred @Paul Br, it may provide a link between the 1970’s and present day.

    • #3095
      ministryworker
      Participant

      @Paul Br

      Thank you for sharing your story and your experiences. While they are absolutely terrifying, I believe you. I am so sorry for what has happened so many years ago and also more recently.

      Sadly, your story is no less believable than the truth we have come to learn about other Christian leaders. RZIM’s poor internal investigation of accusations by Lori Anne Thompson was eerily similar to what we have read here.

      I have heard many people say that they know there is something off at BT but we did not know the depths as you have outlined them here.

       


      @hwpatrick356

      Paul’s story is alarming. You have labeled legitimate concerns as “heresay,” further adding that you “know without a shadow of a doubt that this was fully investigated.” According to Paul, the investigation was comprised of a single interview with no follow up. How are we to believe that it was complete and thorough? I believe Paul, but I’ll ploddingly use the word “if” his allegations are true, this is extremely troublesome for the church. Paul’s claim of other church members knowing of sexual abuse seems to be backed up by posts on the previous blog. “Paul W” posted that the way BT handles allegations was to keep it “hush hush” and that it was “standard operating procedure.” This trend does not bode well.

      Wouldn’t the Pastors and the Board of the Brooklyn Tabernacle want make every assurance that this is fully investigated through an independent investigation and with an organization that does not have a fiduciary responsibility to their own client?

    • #3096
      Paul Br
      Participant

      For those who any question on wether the staff knew about my case against BT

      I have spoke directly with both Jim Cymbala and Lincoln Fritz – as well as both thier secretaries.

      I also called and left voicemails on the extensions for –

      Alex Burgos

      Charles Hammond

      Craig Holiday

      Floyd Johnson

      Jerry Park

      Including multiple messages for Brian Pettrey and Messages at The Chicago Tabernacle for Chrissy Cymbala. I knew her as a child and she used to come over to our house to play.

      I also emailed each one of them as well on multiple occasions from multiple email accounts. Thank you for BT members that reached out to me to give me thier contact info. The employee that gave me thier email addresses , phone numbers and addresses is a true Christian . I am grateful that he has stepped forward .

      Next I will include the email BT attorney sent me to stop contacting employees . They knew .

    • #3097
      Paul Br
      Participant

      From: Tracy L. Boak <tracy@perlmanandperlman.com
      To: M
      Subject:
      Hello, Mr.

      Did you counsel your client regarding my request for a cease and desist?

       

       

      Sent from my iPhone

       

       

       

       

      Tracy L. Boak
      Attorney At Law
      tracy@perlmanandperlman.com

      41 Madison Avenue, Suite 4000
      New York, NY 10010-2202
      P: (212) 889-0575 ext. 236 | F: (212) 743-8120
      http://www.perlmanandperlman.com

      Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.

      This e-mail message may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. Email messages to non-clients are normally confidential and may also be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient(s), or the employee or agent responsible for delivery of this message to the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete this e-mail message from your computer.

      ———————————————————————————————————————————-

      Dear Mr. Cymbala:

      Last week, we were informed that you are no longer represented by previous legal counsel.

      My client has contacted you by phone and fax to ascertain the name of your new firm and/or discuss settlement with you, directly.

      I have been informed that the church has blocked my client’s phone and fax numbers.

      Please reply to this email with the name of your counsel or advise us if you will be proceeding on your own.

      /s/ M.

      Attorney M.
      Managing Partner

       

       

    • #3101
      themessenger
      Participant

      I have been reading this forum for a while and have decided not to post until now.

      I was searching for another word, but my mind fails me this is DISGUSTING.

      Paul, I am sorry for how Jim Cymbala and how Brooklyn Tabernacle has treated you. Your story is horrific. That you are still alive is a miracle.

      Pastors, I am disgusted. You have been called by God, not man. You will stand before God for what you have known and that you were silent.

    • #3103
      Paul Br
      Participant

      I never had any interview with any agency other than CPS . Their goal was to assess any danger children at the church may be in currently they did not research validate or invalidate my case.

      I spoke to Detective Quinones at Brooklyn SVU but she did not get back to me for weeks on end . After I googled her name, I found out she was find it $100,000 plus for putting off sex abuse survivors and not addressing their claims. I told her I was not interested in working with her because of her unprofessionalism and please refer my case to another officer. I have all my text messages and communications with her saved as well.

      I was never interviewed by any policing agencies in New York City. The only people I spoke with is TNM investigations and my contacts in the FBI locally .

      The only time I have ever been interviewed question or given time about my claim was my one interview by the investigator Laura, at T and M.

      As far as people saying I have no relation to the church. That’s really insulting to the son of a preacher that has been forced to go to church since being an infant. Rina Gatdula recruited us from our work at the Salvation Army. My mother cooked their regularly for their out reach programs with Mrs. Gatdula.  Her daughters would regularly sing at the Salvation Army and the Church.

      my father was an assistant pastor at the early Brooklyn Tabernacle and me and my entire family attended the church. So for any of those to claim that I never went there or have no relation to Jim Cymbala. Are just making stuff up

      my account has been blocked so I had to come log in another way. If you don’t think the church is trying to silence me think again

    • #3108
      Paul Br
      Participant

      Here is my final conversation with BTs attorney – this was our communication after she left the case.

      Other Personal details have been removed

      —————————————————————————————————————-

      Hello, Paul,
      Thank you for your email–I appreciate it and wish you well.
      Sincerely,
      Tracy

       

      Tracy Boak
      Attorney At Law
      tracy@perlmanandperlman.com

      Perlman & Perlman, LLP
      41 Madison Avenue, Suite 4000
      New York, NY 10010-2202
      P: (212) 889-0575 ext. 236 | F: (212) 743-8120
      http://www.perlmanandperlman.com

       

      —–Original Message—–
      From: Sweet Feet Music
      Sent: Saturday, August 4, 2018 12:59 PM
      To: Tracy L. Boak <tracy@perlmanandperlman.com>; LKirschstein@tmprotection.com
      Subject: My apologies

      Tracy,
      I do apologize for being so angry with you . I am angry with the church and Jim , and yes was very sad you left the case before the meeting with the board members of Brooklyn Tabernacle  .

      I do hope you will accept my apology and understand my anger is fueled by The Brooklyn tabernacle and thier refusal to accept any responsibility for what they did to me and my family.

      **************************************** personal message deleted ***************

      I hope you will accept my olive branch and thank you for understanding .
      Paul Brewer

       

    • #3109
      FedUpwithitall
      Participant

      @ Paul

      Where does everything stand now with your case against Jim Cymbala and TBT? Also, have you considered taking this information to a news source? With all thats happening in the Christian world currently  with Ravi Zacharias and Carl Lentz etc.  I would think their is much interest in your story.

       

      Thank you again for your transparency.  I look forward to hearing more of your story.

       

      God bless!

      • #3117
        Paul Br
        Participant

        Thank you for your kindness. I have nothing to hide , that is why i choose to move forward with complete transparency .

        As far as speaking with the media –

        I have already been interviewed by The New York Times

        Have spoke with Christian Broadcast Network

        And I was also a part of Oprah Winfreys 200 MEN show – a show about men that have been sexually abused. Although my story was not featured in the episode . They interviewed each of us multiple times .  I got asked to be a part of show because of the therapy group I am in called Male Survivor, and they called me about a letter i sent to them as well.

        As soon as charges are formally filed by attorneys , after thier exhaustive investigation , those outlets will have the green light to release my story and do what they see fit with my story .

        I have attended therapy at MaleSurvivor events that was paid for by The Grammy Academy . The Brooklyn Tabernacle refused to respond to requests for help with therapy. I have the emails to thier attorney. The Grammy Academy paid for my therapy because I am also a dance music producer. Mary Wilson of The Supremes , was one of my references for my application .

        While all this has been going on , I’m been grieving the death of the legend and my dear friend Mary Wilson . She has not only been an emotional support in my healing journey around the sexual abuse I experienced at The Brooklyn Tabernacle. Mary and I released a dance single in 2015, her first billboard hit since MoTown.  I have a few songs that we recorded together I am working on.

        Members of the music community, including members of The BT Choir are also aware of my allegations via my connections in the music industry

        FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART !! I WANT TO THANK ALL THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE REACHED OUT TO ME ANDD THIS FORUM AND PERSONALLY. THIS WEEKEND HAS BEEN INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT DEALING WITH THE FALSE INFORMATION SPREAD ABOUT THE INVESTIGATION. YOU HAVE ALL BROUGHT HOPE AND LIGHT TO ME AND SO MANY OTHER SURVIVORS ! THANK YOU

         

      • #3119
        Former Member
        Participant

        @Paul Br

         

        Your story is heartbreaking. I hope support for you continues to increase. Websites like this one, providing resources to sift through the quagmire of confusion, will assist in others being able to begin seeing clearly. https://www.brooklyntabforum.com/weaponized-bible-verses-common-terms-and-phrases/. There will always be people who do not believe and will ignore the cries of the wounded. The church does a masterful job of conditioning its followers to reject anything deemed “negative” about its leadership or the church. Congregations believe they are thinking for themselves when in reality they are not. They reject truth tellers “in the name of the Lord.” I used to be among them, but now I see.

        I wish you the best in your quest for justice.

    • #3118
      FedUpwithitall
      Participant

      @Paul

      Praying for full exposure of what has been done to you and I am sure many others. Praying for you as well, that God heals the wounds that have been inflicted upon you.

       

      God bless

    • #3120
      JBranch
      Participant

      @hwpatrick356

      The crickets are deafening.

      @Paul Br

      I echo the sentiments of what others have said here. Thank you for sharing your story. We believe you. My hope is that others will hear it and be warned of the danger of Jim Cymbala. Others may hear it and share stories similar to yours. History has shown that abuse like you have endured are patterns that continue for many many many years.

      May our one true God give you healing and restoration.

      J

    • #3126
      FedUpwithitall
      Participant

      Patrick has gone back into the whole he came from and has proven by his lack of response or compassion for the victims of the Brooklyn Tabernacle and Jim Cymbala that he is an insider only trying to hide the truth and discredit.  Soon enough the truth will be heard and ALL those who are complicit will be exposed for all the public to see. Evil men praying on sheep. They are wolves.

    • #3127
      Concerned Staff
      Participant

      patrick aka A.B. do you have a reply for why pjc killed the investigation?

      concerned staff is waiting!

      #bttoo?

      • #3130
        Paul Br
        Participant

        They thought they could just spread lies, make threats , and I would just walk away and forget.

        Patrick, thank you continuing to perpetuate the abuse and false narratives about childhood sexual abuse and trafficking by The Brooklyn Tabernacle.  YOU ARE CLEARLY PART OF THE PROBLEM

      • #3131
        Paul Br
        Participant

        FYI, the never “killed” the investigation, thier lawyer resigned form the case June 2018

      • #3132
        Concerned Staff
        Participant

        paul, there werent many of us in my department that were told directly there was an investigation but word certainly spread. for those of us who knew we were led to beleive it was completed. apparently that was a lie. strange that the lawyer left the case. were you given a reason why?

    • #3133
      Paul Br
      Participant

      I was ruthless and did not give thier attorney a moments break. The actions that BT took were inexcusable. And since the lawyer was their legally representative, I let her HAVE IT !! Regularly.

      per my last phone conversation with her.

      I told her , paraphrase, “ I may seem very valiant about my “story” , as you like to call it,  because I have nothing to prove and  this is the truth “ . Shortly thereafter she sent in her resignation . My belief is with the facts presented and my not giving her and the church a break. She left the case.

      • #3134
        Paul Br
        Participant

        @Concerned Staff

    • #3135
      Concerned Staff
      Participant

      @paul br

      thank you for replying.

      i read your letter to the lawyer in your earlier comment. i appreciated your words to her. it is strange to have a lawyer resign from their client. lawyers deal with difficult people all the time. maybe she started the case having been told you were lying but realized there were hard facts. coming from a church i can image that was hard for her to fathom. conscience is a funny thing. interesting that she wished you well!!

    • #3179
      Paul Br
      Participant

      I eft many many voicemails at the Brooklyn Tabernacle last night. I stated most of the info I shared on the forum about the not completed investigation and the churches handling of abuse claims . I also asked them for over the 200th time to have thier new attorney contact me .

      VERY VERY DETAILED Voice messages were left for –

      Lincoln Fritz

      Alex burgos

      Charles Hammond

      Craig holiday

      Floyd Johnson

      Jerry Park

      Brian Pettrey

      Tamara Fritz

      Ashton Buros

      David Burgos

      Duke Pettrey

      Susan Pettrey

       

    • #3182
      Paul W
      Participant

      @Paul Br

      Good luck getting in touch with the Pettreys. The have built a brand new house and have permanently moved to a beautiful gated community in Florida. They are spending their days at the tennis courts while receiving a full salary from the hard working members of Brooklyn Tabernacle that don’t know any better.

      #livingthedream

      • #3183
        Paul Br
        Participant

        I’m sure their secretaries will pass on the messages ( insert sarcastic laugh)

        They can live the dream in Florida but they cant run from the truth !

      • #3185
        Paul W
        Participant

        Jeremiah 16:17

        For My eyes are on all their ways; they are not hidden from My face, nor is their iniquity concealed from My eyes.

      • #3187
        Questions
        Participant

        @Paul W

        The beautiful 4 br, 3 1/2 ba, 2600 sq ft home it is believed they rented in Queens hosted an open house a few weeks ago, asking $5900/month. Rent estimates during the years they reportedly lived there were slightly lower, around $5600/month. How is it possible to afford rent like that when supposedly living on 2 modest church salaries paid for by donors’ tithes? Now they are living in a different part of the country while still getting paid full time salaries at BT. How is that allowed by leadership and the board?

    • #3184
      FedUpwithitall
      Participant

      @ Paul B

      Don’t give up! Your voice needs to be heard!

      God bless you

      • #3186
        Paul Br
        Participant

        Thank you for your support !

        Matthew 10:16
        “Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves.

    • #3188
      FedUpwithitall
      Participant

      @ Questions

      What!

      That’s crazy but not surprising. The whole family lives like kings on the church’s dime. SMH

       

      Jim & Carol are still in FLA!

       

    • #3202
      David A
      Participant

      Paul Brewer VS The Brooklyn Tabernacle

      Case -Index Number

      520639/2021

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